Bloke gets $200 refund for unwanted Vista
HP coughs up, thanks to Volish Eula
HAVE YOU BOUGHT A NEW computer lately? Chances are, if you have, you'll be forced into paying for Windows Vista as part of the package. We know... it sucks, but that's just the way things are, right? Apparently not.
One resourceful HP purchaser decided that he was as mad as hell and not going to take it any more, so he got on the phone to HP and asked for a refund.
According to the EULA which popped up as he was trying to install the beleaguered and much-maligned operating system, anyone not accepting the manifold terms and conditions, and who was not willing to tick a box to affirm this acceptance, should, "contact the manufacturer or installer to determine their return policy for a refund or credit".
Which is exactly what this rather tenacious user did.
After many days of phone calls, emails and the kind of delay-and-divert tactics from HP which would put a lesser man off of the hunt, our Hawaiian hero emerged victorious clutching a cheque for two hundred bucks. Which given that Vista retails for $240 is quite a result.
The fine fellow in question has given full details of how he got his money back in the L'Inq below, including the direct dial phone numbers and extensions of the people involved.
We're guessing that this is a loophole which Voles will be scuttling around trying quickly and permanently to close. Meantime, if you want your money back, you'd better hurry. µ
L'Inq
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Comments
It's even worse in Romania
In Romania we pay the same prices as a laptop in UK that has Vista, but without Vista. How worse can you get?Not in UK
I still have the unused licence and the photographs demonstrating that I didn't accept the licence but installed openSUSE immediately.The first time around HP told me to go away.
The second time around, when I tried to use the publicity of an Italian court case based on identical circumstances to gain a refund, HP started whinging that not only was the court case not relevant but , anyway, they were great supporters of Linux, so what was my point? (er, a refund for an unwanted licence)
Life being too short I gave up, but I do wonder what is different about the UK
Nothing new
This is nothing new. This "loophole" also existed in XP. People have been demanding refunds for unwanted operating systems for years and years; Microsoft is not "scuttling around trying quickly and permanently to close" this "loophole".I am surprised an author is this unknowledgeable, posting this as if it is news -- as if it is the first time it has ever happened...
EC could fix MS
In Europe the EC could easily fix this persistent problem with Microsoft software by forcing manufacturers and resellers to list all Microsoft software including MS Windows as separate options with the exact price, in addition to the hardware and other software, with no possibility of a "discount".Prohibiting a discount on Microsoft software is important, because as monopolist Microsoft could force manufacturers and resellers to offer MS Windows at less than the market price. That in turn would increase the price for the hardware, thus subsidising Microsoft software through the hardware sales price which everybody has to pay, MS customer or not.
$200 sounds good, but consider the retail price of $240 plus (!) the additional cost of installing MS Windows. The OpenSUSE user should probably get something closer to $300 in return for the disposed MS Windows Vista system.
The problem...
It's that, the refound money it's not from the Migthy Vole(TM) but from HP....and that the amount of users that does tha it's 1% of those who keep the unused license. I bought a HP machine, can't return the crappyOS so, it's now living inside Ubuntu on VirtualBox (don't care the license, I paid for it so I will make whatever I WANT WITH IT!)
Genius
Well, spot on for persistance - it's always good to hear that people actually follow this through and get the result that's deserved.It'll be interesting to see whether others have similar success.
@gerry
You answered your own question. We give up rather too fast when it comes to complaining. It seems in this country we consider it more polite to whinge at each other about things and say "something must be done!" rather than pursue a solution.@Graham
I confess to not spotting the whinge in my original posting, but rather expressing curiosity as to the differing circumstances.I still have the licence and the correspondence - do you have any advice?
@Gerry
Advice?(1) Take pictures (screenshots) of the EULA during the early process of the Windows install. It'll pop-up saying if you agree or not.
As the original blog link shows, make sure its the picture of the part where it says you are allowed to get a refund from the OEM, if you do not agree with the Windows EULA.
Photograph evidence that you did NOT install/agree to the EULA terms and decided to install Linux (or other OS) instead.
(2) Remain persistent.
Folks from HP, Toshiba, etc will keep giving you excuses in order for you to drop this issue.
Stuff like (to paraphrase); "The hardware and software are bundled as one. You must refund the whole lot."
Of course this excuse is BS, but most people don't know that software and hardware are separate entities, so they drop the issue!
You MUST remain persistent and calmly/politely insist you want a refund for Windows license. Just ignore the reasons that they come up with. Also watch out for attempts to throw you off.
Insist you want the refund as mentioned in the Windows EULA, and you only care about the warranty relating to the hardware itself and nothing else. (You don't want software support).
(3) Be patient.
This whole refund process is intentionally made such that you'll lose patience and give up. (Its exactly what they want you to do, give up and not go through with it).
All in all, if you believe you don't need the bundled Windows license on your system, then pursue it until you get your refund.
Its important to recognise OEMs buy licenses from Microsoft. Its the OEM's responsibility to refund you that license. So don't bother going to Microsoft for any help on this issue. (They'll tell you to talk to the OEM anyway!)
While it hurts the OEMs directly, it'll make them realise not everyone wants Windows. It could result in OEMs to start providing options for the customer to choose what OS they want in the future. (As in the case the Dell, etc and manufacturers producing those pointless "nettop" solutions).
Indirectly, it'll force Microsoft to lower their prices of licenses and give OEMs incentives to keep bundling Windows on systems...Thus, it eventually hurts Microsoft's bottom line in the long term (think financial reports, shareholders, etc), while benefiting both the OEM and the customer.
What this comes down to is a matter of perspective. Companies no longer respect customers as people. They only see them as a source of money.
Of course, this means the customer really has the power, NOT the companies.
Regardless, as the customer, its YOUR responsibility to know your rights and terms. (I know its that boring legalese, but read it, and you'll see how unfair things really are).
The power you have, only goes, when you hand it over without thinking.
Remember: This is YOUR money. Think about how hard you've worked for it BEFORE you hand it over.
WTF does whinge mean?
I thought it was a typo, but it shows up in the comments, too. Do the English spell it "whinge," while we Americans spell it "whine?"Small Claims Court
I think several hundred visits to the small claims court might change their attitude a bit.Its your money they're stealing!
er
The easy solution is not to by your computer/laptop from retarded brands like HP...Pick a decent online jobby that allows you the option of OS or no OS at all.
End of.
Acer are liars too
@Jason GoatcharYes, we do say Whinge, although we also say Whine!
@everybody
I am happy to say that I managed to get a refund from Acer for Windows XP MCE. When I say I got a refund I actually got an email stating that I would be getting it. This was at Christmas and 7 months later I am still waiting for the cheque. I have rang them several times and they state the cheque has been sent but it has never arrived. When I ask for proof that the cheque has been raised they state that they will get it but it never materialises.
I am still fighting and if the preinstalled issue goes to the European Court I will happily make myself available to tell me experiences. I know that it is supposedly being investigated and as soon as I find out who is investigating it I will be contacting them immediately.
I have plans to consult a solicitor and if I have to take this to court then I will be looking for extra money for all of my time they have wasted in making me chase this.
Until I get my money then Acer are off my recommended list. So far I have persuaded 23 people not to buy Acer.
Shoot Self In FEET.
If person was so Smart, Never Bought HP in First Place. Next You just Dumped another 5 years of Developement out Window by going Linux, let alone susse. Lastly, Selling fiduciarie instrument for above face value isn't legal.(or someone write in 200 trillion, once obtained instrument) In ALL Sad Day for Thousands of Professionals by gab made up in Dweeb Spitters' crazy mind..drashek
In Hungary...
...notebooks come also mostly wiith XP Home or Vista. But fortunately at some better webshops you can buy notebooks with FreeDOS. Now that's something :) I bought my notebook 1,5 years ago WITHOUT OS. Unfortunately since then there is some law which prohibits selling notebooks without OS...Employee of HP
I can asure you there will be no refunds given out for windows vista as this was a mistake made by the Case Manager. All HP tech support and support staf know about this and will not be giving anymore refunds regarding operating systemsMS Conspiracy
I worked for HP for about 2 years 2 diff companies and I have to say that he guy who got that nice check is so lucky. HP is DIRTY big time!!! In US/USA you can buy any desire laptop or desktop with any desire OS. Sure you can buy one with vista OS and put ur costume one after you get it. About getting machines without an OS I don't know cuz they all come loaded with windows and because of the license agrement that they have with MS. Sure there are producers like HP and Dell that now sells computers with open source OSs and let's not forget about IBM and many other custome computers comming with Red hat or susse.The sad part is if you buy a computer with out an OS from Dell/HP/IBM/Accer etc, you will never get a discount for it. Manapoly baby!
Re: Nothing New
Re: comment title, I agree. So I've started a Wikia Scratchpad article to enumerate prior attempts. The title of the Wikia Scratchpad article is "Microsoft Windows refund". The URL is left as an exercise for the reader.Nothing new... but what's the guy using?
Interesting that the PC in question may not be supported by Linux, as drivers for all components may not be available. I wonder if the guy is still using Windows: if he is, he's violating the Microsoft EULA.